Mr. Ruby.

Yes; I follow that, but he doesn't have to go through the preliminary explaining to me this because I'll answer anything you want "off the hook."

Mr. Specter.

Mr. Ruby, we appreciate your willingness to do that and we'll take you up on that to the fullest extent possible, but Mr. Herndon has to do some preliminary questioning which is indispensable to his evaluation.

Mr. Ruby.

All right, get him to minimize it if he can.

Mr. Specter.

He will bear that in mind and minimized it to the fullest extent.

Mr. Herndon.

Are you ready?

Mr. Specter.

Yes.

Mr. Herndon.

Then, these gentlemen actually will not be aware of the questions, is that all right with you, I mean--prior to the time they leave? I believe we discussed that previously and I did want to mention it, that it would be so important when the questions would be asked.

Mr. Alexander.

Not to me, Jack.

Mr. Ruby.

I see---about your being aware of the question.

Mr. Herndon.

Mr. Specter, you recall, previously--one of the reasons I was going, over all the questions before actually conducting the examination was in order for these gentlemen that are in attendance to be aware of what questions are going to be asked Mr. Ruby during the actual polygraph examination. Now, if we dispense with that before we go over these questions, if they leave the room, they do not know the questions I'm going to ask him.

Mr. Alexander.

I don't think Sack has any objection to us staying here at this time, do you, Jack?

Mr. Ruby.

No; I certainly don't.

Mr. Fowler.

Well, of course, I still have the same objection, and respectfully request again, Jack, that we're not trying to hide anything- -don't misunderstand me.

Mr. Ruby.

Just a minute let me tell you something. I want to straighten up some things. Whether he leaves the room or not, Mr. Alexander is going to know everything that went on here, so please concede to it.

Mr. Fowler.

Well, I'll concede to this, that at sometime he will know, but I'm saying this--that perhaps there might be something, Jack, that might in some way be to your detriment if Mr. Alexander knew the answer to the question at this time. Now, he may say "No," but I still, as your attorney and in trying to protect your rights, insist that it be handled in this way, and I would certainly appreciate your cooperation with me to that extent.

Mr. Ruby.

The only reason I want Mr. Alexander here, I want him to know my effectiveness when I answer the questions.

Mr. Fowler.

Jack, that's very well, and I don't think he has any doubt that you're trying to hide it and all of that.

Mr. Specter.

Then, let us proceed as we have before, with Mr. Herndon announcing the questions in advance but going through a minimum amount of preliminaries so that he is satisfied that he can evaluate the results.

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Specter.

And we will proceed on that basis.

Mr. Ruby.

You can run through them a lot faster and I'll grasp them.

Mr. Herndon.

All right; I will proceed in that manner and also with the questions we have already set forth.

Mr. Specter.

Yes; and then we'll supplement them to cover the additional topics which have not yet been included.

Mr. Herndon.

All right, Mr. Ruby, do you feel all right to continue with this?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; I am ready.

Mr. Herndon.

Very fine. I will hook this up and go over these questions and I'll just read them out to you and you just speak up if there is one you want to rephrase.

Mr. Ruby.

Go ahead.

Mr. Herndon.

"Did you see the armored truck before you went to the basement?"

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Herndon.

"Did you enter the police department through a door at the rear on the east side of the jail?"