Mr. Specter.

Mr. Ruby, I don't want to leave any area of questionableness here or ambiguity---of course, you didn't say in your sleep this, so perhaps we ought to phrase it "Before you went to bed on Saturday night or early Sunday morning did you tell anyone you intended to shoot Oswald?"

Mr. Ruby.

That's right.

Mr. Herndon.

Would you repeat that, Mr. Specter?

Mr. Specter.

Yes. "Before you went to bed------" What time did you go to bed that night?

Mr. Ruby.

At 1:15 or 1:30, but you must put it specifically--also, whether I received any phone calls from the time I went to bed and the time I arose. Do you follow me? In other words, I could clear myself by answering that question truthfully, but I could have received a phone call in between the time I went to bed and the time I awakened.

Mr. Herndon.

So, the area we're trying to cover here, Mr. Ruby, as I see it is--if you did tell anyone you were thinking of doing this--the approximate time. Is that what we're getting at, Mr. Specter?

Mr. Specter.

Yes.

Mr. Herndon.

Now, we can phrase that in several different ways. If your recollection is that good that you specifically recall an incident, you can tell me how you want me to ask it.

Mr. Alexander.

May I make a suggestion?

Mr. Herndon.

Yes.

Mr. Alexander.

Ask it, "Did you tell someone by telephone you intended to shoot Oswald?"

Mr. Ruby.

Plus the fact that I think it should be included, "Did I talk to anyone before going to bed?"

Mr. Herndon.

Mr. Specter?

Mr. Fowler.

Now, we will certainly object to a question being framed by this attorney.

Mr. Specter.

Mr. Fowler, do I understand your position correctly, that you are concerned about the disclosure of this information in the presence of Mr. Alexander?

Mr. Fowler.

I am.

Mr. Specter.

But, do you have any concern about disclosing the answer to this question to the Commission?

Mr. Fowler.

None whatsoever.

Mr. Specter.

Well, would it be agreeable With you if Mr. Alexander leaves while this question is being formulated so we can understand it, and then that he comes back when we have formulated it?

Mr. Alexander.

Jack knows that I know the answer to it, so there's no use in anybody getting upset about it.

Mr. Ruby.

Are you sure you know the answer to it?

Mr. Alexander.

I think so, Jack.

Mr. Fowler.

It would be preferable if he would leave.

Mr. Specter.

Mr. Alexander, do you have any objection to stepping out just while we formulate this question?

Mr. Alexander.

Not at all, not at all. Come on Joe.

Mr. Tonahill.

I don't have to go.

Mr. Specter.

Mr. Alexander has now departed, may the record show. All right, Mr. Ruby, we want to phrase the question in accordance with polygraph procedure in a way that gets to the point, as you see the point. So, tell us exactly what you have in mind here.

Mr. Ruby.

Well, you had better remind me again.

Mr. Herndon.

Here's the area we're trying to cover. Here's the question I originally asked you which created all this problem. "Between the assassination and the shooting"--now, let me start that again--"Did you tell anyone that you were thinking of shooting Oswald before you did?"
Now, I tried to put that as plainly as I could. I'm not interested here in the area of when----

Mr. Ruby.

Yes, but if you're speaking in the area of when, it's pretty incriminating. It's a long premeditation, then, of time element.