Mr. Hubert.

Now, I come to, in effect, the question I asked you this morning, Larry. I don't want you to feel bound by what you said at another time unless it was the truth.

Mr. Crafard.

I realize that.

Mr. Hubert.

I suggest to you that the real motivation for leaving Dallas was that you had found out that Oswald had been in the club, and that the matter was getting a little too thick for you and you wanted out of it.

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

That is not true?

Mr. Crafard.

No, sir; that is not true.

Mr. Hubert.

You say that is not true even if it is possible that Armstrong told you that Oswald had been in the club?

Mr. Crafard.

That is right. If that is the case it was a subconscious thought It wasn't conscious to where I would remember it. It would have been a subconscious thought that it was the case.

Mr. Hubert.

I don't understand you when you say it was a subconscious thought.

Mr. Crafard.

Just that. It wouldn't have been something that I thought about for any period of time. It would have been something that I had heard it and it just, I didn't even think about it, and then subconsciously that could have something to do with my leaving, but on a conscious level I will say no.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, do you recall discussing it with this person who told you, in any way, so that you ascertained from the person how they knew?

Mr. Crafard.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Had it been Armstrong wouldn't you have asked him, "Well, how do you know that, Andy? When did you see him? Where did you see him? Who was he with?" You would have asked those questions, wouldn't you?

Mr. Crafard.

I would have asked him how he knew for sure.

Mr. Hubert.

You don't recall asking the person who told you that?

Mr. Crafard.

I don't recall; no.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, now, if you had heard that from some of the people that you had been tiding with it would have had to be after Ruby had shot Oswald, wouldn't it?

Mr. Crafard.

Yes; it seems so. Otherwise, I wouldn't have known about Ruby being involved with him.

Mr. Hubert.

That is correct. But you didn't find out about Ruby being involved until Monday morning.

Mr. Crafard.

That is right.

Mr. Hubert.

Therefore, it had to be after that so far as you are concerned?

Mr. Crafard.

That is right, if I wasn't in Dallas. I believe that I heard the statement before I left Dallas on the 23d.

Mr. Hubert.

That being the case, unless you want to tell us some other things, it had to be Armstrong.

Mr. Crafard.

That is right. That is all I can--I can't say for sure who it was, and I can't even say for sure that I heard the statement before I left Dallas. But I believe that it was.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall when it was that you first began to think about this statement?

Mr. Crafard.

No; I can't.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you talk with the people in Michigan, your relatives in Michigan about it?

Mr. Crafard.

I don't remember, sir. I might have, with my sister, but I don't remember.

Mr. Griffin.

You told me, I believe, in the automobile that you had not been aware until I mentioned it to you in the car that Bill DeMar had made the statement that he saw Oswald in the club.

Mr. Crafard.

That is right.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you think, if someone had told you, one of your relatives or somebody like that had told you, one of Ruby's performers or somebody who worked for Ruby had said that he saw Oswald there, do you think you would have remembered that kind of information being conveyed to you?

Mr. Crafard.

I might have remembered something about the fact that one