Mr. Hubert.

Do you know anyone whose last name is Umberto, U-m-b-e-r-t-o?

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know anyone by the name of Kirk Bibul?

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

What about a person by the name of Elliott Schwartz?

Mr. Ruby.

Elliott Schwartz, he is married to another sister of my wife.

Mr. Hubert.

Where does he live?

Mr. Ruby.

New York.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you have occasion to contact him?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, sure. I see him, he comes in for events, marriages, bar mitzvahs and all that stuff. In fact, I wanted to call him last night because I am so close.

Mr. Hubert.

It is a social relationship, social and family?

Mr. Ruby.

Oh, yes.

Mr. Hubert.

No business relationship?

Mr. Ruby.

Well, I was going to have him manufacture the nameplates for me, when I couldn't sell them to Mario Anesi, he told me business was bad up in New York, so I sent the tools and dies there, but we never used them, never got any sales, so the tools and dies for the nameplates are just there not being used at all.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, Edward A. Cobo was the owner of the Cobo Cleaners prior to the time you bought it out?

Mr. Ruby.

The junior, I bought it from the junior, his mother and his sister. I think Cobo himself had passed away several years ago.

Mr. Hubert.

I think you said he was mayor.

Mr. Ruby.

His brother, A1 Cobo, was the mayor, but A1 and Edward Cobo owned Cobo Cleaners. The mayor owns half of it.

Mr. Hubert.

But when you bought it, the mayor had died?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And his interest had passed to his family, I take it?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; to probably, I don't know but I think it probably passed to his brother and then his brother passed away and then the interest went to the brother's wife and son and daughter, and that is who we bought it from.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you know a man by the name of Buddy Heard?

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you had any contact with a company called the Anran Tool and Manufacturing Co.?

Mr. Ruby.

Are you sure it is Anran and not Anson?

Mr. Hubert.

Maybe it is Anson.

Mr. Ruby.

That is owned by Mario Anesi and his brother.

Mr. Hubert.

So that any contacts you would have had with that company was really what you were talking about a little while ago?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; that is right. They made all the parts for us and tools and dies for, oh, 10 years or more.

Mr. Hubert.

I don't know if you stated what Mario Anesi's brother's name was.

Mr. Ruby.

One's name is Burt, that is how I know him by, Burr, and he has another brother. I don't even know his name.

Mr. Hubert.

Are they all in this company?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; now, Burr could possibly be Umberto, I don't know, because Butt is an unusual name for Italian people.

Mr. Hubert.

And your statement is that your contacts in the last 2 years say with the Anesi's or the Anson Tool and Manufacturing Company have been as you have stated in regard to the dies and the manufacture of shutters and so on?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

What about the Triangle Manufacturing Co.? Have you had any contact with that company?

Mr. Ruby.

Triangle? What do they make?
I once had a Triangle many years ago that made I think it is Triangle made a set of cutting dies for me. I don't know if it is the same company.