Mr. Hubert.

And you say you continued to go to the Carousel from time to time. How often about, just roughly?

Mr. Senator.

Two or three times a week. It all depends.

Mr. Hubert.

And you would help there?

Mr. Senator.

Not always. Sometimes I would, sometimes I wouldn't.

Mr. Hubert.

If you helped did he pay you?

Mr. Senator.

No; I did it because I still remember what he has done for me when I was down and out, and it wasn't that many hours or it wasn't difficult labor or anything of that nature. But I still remembered the things he did for me, when I was down and out.

Mr. Hubert.

All right, then I think we have covered the time when Corbat left and you lost your job and found that you were down and out and again you moved into his apartment then, giving up the apartment next door.

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he invite you in then or did you ask him?

Mr. Senator.

No; he invited me. He knew I was pressed.

Mr. Hubert.

And you had to give up the automobile at that time?

Mr. Senator.

No; I had the automobile until January.

Mr. Hubert.

The fact is I think you told us that you were working with these people until after Oswald was shot?

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

But at the stress of the----

Mr. Senator.

But the stresses.

Mr. Hubert.

The stress of having to carry the whole apartment when Corbat left was one of the factors that put pressure upon you, is that right?

Mr. Senator.

Yes; it is the pressure of the extra amount of money.

Mr. Hubert.

You did not own an automobile of your own I take it?

Mr. Senator.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you ever?

Mr. Senator.

Oh, when I was traveling the road; yes.

Mr. Hubert.

When was the last time you owned an automobile?

Mr. Senator.

I don't know, it must have been about 4 or 5 years ago.

Mr. Hubert.

What kind was it?

Mr. Senator.

I think the last one I had was, I think it was a Buick.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you sell it?

Mr. Senator.

Yes; I don't remember if I sold it or traded it in.

Mr. Hubert.

You traded it in for what?

Mr. Senator.

I had a Buick once. I mean I had a few Buicks. When I say a few I mean there might have been about 3, and I had a Ford once I believe.

Mr. Hubert.

In any case you haven't owned a car of your own for about 4 or 5 years?

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

And the last car you owned you must have sold it I suppose. You couldn't have traded it in because then you would have gotten a new car.

Mr. Senator.

I am trying to think what was I doing with the last car. I think the last car, I think I lost it on payments. I couldn't keep up the payments if I am not mistaken, if that is the one. I think that is it. I am not sure.

Mr. Griffin.

Let me interrupt a second to clarify one thing in my mind. You mentioned this Volkswagen. The last time you had it was in January?

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Now what year?

Mr. Senator.

1964.

Mr. Griffin.

Just a couple of months ago?

Mr. Senator.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Coming to the first part of November 1963, was that when you in with Jack?

Mr. Senator.

Yes; I believe it was somewhere around the 1st or 2d of November, something like that.

Mr. Hubert.

Then I suppose you went back to the routine of the general mode of living and working with him that had existed before?

Mr. Senator.

No; then I was helping him, I mean I was staying with him,