Mr. Griffin.

In any positions?

Mr. Smart.

No, sir.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember if----

Mr. Smart.

I turned them over to Captain Jones, he was handling that, and I told him, if I could help him, to let me know, that I would be down there, and he placed them.

Mr. Griffin.

What did you do at that point?

Mr. Smart.

At that time, they were attempting to back this armored truck in, and I walked up the ramp, and they were having difficulty getting it in on account of the height of it and so forth, and Chief Batchelor was present, if I am not mistaken, he went down with us or in the group, and he and I decided with the driver that we couldn't get it all of the way down, and parked it about a third of the way down, I guess.

Mr. Griffin.

Are you a uniformed officer?

Mr. Smart.

Beg your pardon.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you wear a uniform?

Mr. Smart.

No, sir.

Mr. Griffin.

I want to get here a diagram that we have been using. I am going to ask you to mark on this diagram. This is a diagram of the basement. Here is the Jail office.

Mr. Smart.

Uh-huh.

Mr. Griffin.

The ramp up to Commerce Street, the ramp down from Main Street, and the garage area. Now, can you mark on this map or chart----

Mr. Smart.

This ramp goes on out like this, doesn't it?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.

Mr. Smart.

This is really a solid wall.

Mr. Griffin.

Let me explain what this is here. This is the basement wall, this far black line is the basement wall, which underneath the ground goes all of the way out to the sidewalk, beyond the sidewalk.

Mr. Smart.

Uh-huh.

Mr. Griffin.

However, at the street level----

Mr. Smart.

This would all be sidewalk?

Mr. Griffin.

This would all be sidewalk.

Mr. Smart.

I see.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, will you show us on this diagram where you were standing just before Lee Oswald was shot?

Mr. Smart.

Well, I would say about here.

Mr. Griffin.

Would you mark it with an "X" if you would?

Mr. Smart.

All right. Roughly.

Mr. Griffin.

Would you do something? Would you put your initials beside it or something to indicate that that is you? Okay. Now, did you see Sam Pierce's car go out of the driveway?

Mr. Smart.

No; I didn't.

Mr. Griffin.

Which direction or what were you doing at the time that Pierce's car would have gone out about a minute ago?

Mr. Smart.

I don't know when his car went out. I heard them talking about it. It was supposed to have gone out this way, wasn't it?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes; now, when you were standing by the armored car, were you looking up to Commerce Street?

Mr. Smart.

At the time of the shooting?

Mr. Griffin.

No; not at the time of the shooting.

Mr. Smart.

Well, I was looking every way that I could, this side of the truck, this side of the truck, trying to see down here from time to time, but I couldn't see much for the television lights.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, how long----

Mr. Smart.

I was mainly interested in the security angle from across the street, so forth. That was my thought.

Mr. Griffin.

How long had you remained--how long had you been here by the side of this armored truck prior to the time that you heard any shots in the basement?

Mr. Smart.

Oh, long enough that, when the truck backed down, Batchelor and I found some bottles in it, anything that might be used as a weapon that was