Mr. Jackson.

would be closed that night? I think you indicated to me that at the time you or maybe possibly you and she heard about it in some other way prior to that time?

Mr. Carlin.

I myself misunderstood the question--that is correct, but what I thought she said was the way she heard that Oswald was killed.

Mr. Jackson.

All right, to your knowledge, how did she learn that Oswald was killed?

Mr. Carlin.

I was washing television and I don't remember the program, but a news bulletin interrupted the program and said a man by the name of Ruby, I believe.

Mr. Jackson.

Jack Ruby?

Mr. Carlin.

I don't remember whether it said Jack or it said Ruby, a Dallas nightclub owner, had attempted to assassinate Lee Harvey Oswald, the assassinator of John F. Kennedy, and I made the statement, "I bet they mean Ruby."

Mr. Jackson.

You made the statement to whom?

Mr. Carlin.

Karen. I said, "I bet they mean Ruby."

Mr. Jackson.

Why did you make this statement. do you remember?

Mr. Hubert.

Mr. Jackson, may I ask him--I have no objection whatsoever to your asking any questions, but I think perhaps for the sake of the record, it would be better if I ask them, and then when we finish asking him, you absolutely have the right to go ahead.

Mr. Jackson.

I was just trying to help you.

Mr. Carlin.

I really don't recall if it said Jack Ruby or not. I don't know what made me say, "I bet that is Ruby," but I know the announcer on TV seemed not to be sure, and said that this was not verified yet. And only a few minutes later the phone rang and it was Tammi True who asked if I had seen television.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you speak to her yourself?

Mr. Carlin.

Yes, I picked the phone up and she said, "Were you watching television?" And I said, "Yes." She said, "Did you know Jack Ruby just killed Oswald?" And I said, "I just made that statement to Karen, I bet that is what the man meant." The only reason that I can think of that 1 said, "I bet that is Jack Ruby," is the fact that he may have said Jack Ruby, or maybe a man by the name of Ruby running a Dallas strip joint. I think that is the way he said it.

Mr. Hubert.

In any case, what you want to tell now is that you differ with your wife's recollection of how she learned of the shooting of Oswald in that you yourself saw. it on television and remarked to her that at least it could have been Jack Ruby, and then it was confirmed by the call?

Mr. Carlin.

This is what she said, except the fact she forgot that Tammi True had called. I don't think she even said in her statement a while ago except for the fact that she was thinking she had seen it on television. Of course, we all saw it so many times.

Mr. Hubert.

Well, Mr. Jackson, do you want to pursue any further?

Mr. Jackson.

No.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you any other aspects of the matter that you would like to comment upon relative to your wife's testimony first?

Mr. Carlin.

A number of times there were a few things, very minor, which a person's memory might be mine is failing me. There are a few things that were said that I did not know about, that she mentioned. But this is because I was not always at the club.

Mr. Hubert.

What I mean to do by this is to simply ask you this. So far as you have heard it and except in the way you have corrected it, your version of the role you played in the things you did and the things you said and the things you heard is about the same as your wife's, is that correct?

Mr. Carlin.

There are two more things that I can think of right now, and let me state both of them. One is concerning the rent, and one is the fact that I talked to him, which she stated she didn't know what we were saying. But I talked to him in the parking lot that night.

Mr. Hubert.

Take one at a time.

Mr. Carlin.

Concerning the parking lot conversation on the phone. She came back to the table in Co1ony Club and was rather upset about the fact