Mr. Hubert.

was in what purported to be a uniform, that you weren't to let him in anyhow unless he had an identification?

Mr. Vaughn.

Well, he said--the way I understand it, Mr. Hubert, if I recognized them by sight and knew them to be an officer, and by my own knowing them, then otherwise, where I think it was more applied--to where he said there would possibly be some Secret Service men and possibly would be some Federal agents I didn't know, and would I require identification from them.

Mr. Hubert.

What did you understand to mean by proper press accreditation or identification?

Mr. Vaughn.

Well, there was one case where there are several different types of press cards. The only one that I would accept from them which would be, and I think in one or two cases, was the official card either issued by the States of Texas or by the City of Dallas, which contained the photograph of the reporter.

Mr. Hubert.

Otherwise, even though they had something that looked like a press card, you understood that you were to turn them away?

Mr. Vaughn.

Yes, sir; that's right.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you in fact turn away some people?

Mr. Vaughn.

I had one particular--yes, I turned away several people that were not press--they would try to enter the ramp. Of course, this is---normally a person going to the jail, which is immediately off of the bottom of the ramp--a lot of people will try to use that ramp as an entrance to the jail and there were a lot of People that come up there and said that they were going to the jail and I turned them away and told them to go some other way.
There was one reporter that come up and I believe he was with either Associated Press or United Press, I don't recall exactly, and he had on a sweater--first he asked me if some man was in the basement, some other reporter, and I told him I didn't know, and he said he wanted to go down 'and see him, and I told him I couldn't permit him to without identification, and he pulled out a pass which is--I don't know how to express it--a large yellow pass, more or less a complimentary press pass and I told him I couldn't accept .that and he dug around in his billfold and he finally did come up with a pass. I believe this particular pass was issued by the State of California or the City of Los Angeles, but it was similar to our official pass.

Mr. Hubert.

And you recognized that?

Mr. Vaughn.

Yes; I did.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you know Jack Ruby at all prior to this occasion?

Mr. Vaughn.

Well, I had met Mr. Ruby prior to this time, Mr. Hubert.

Mr. Hubert.

How many times would you say?

Mr. Vaughn.

I would say two or three times to be at the most.

Mr. Hubert.

How long before November 24?

Mr. Vaughn.

When I was a rookie in 1959, I met Mr. Ruby while I was working a district out of Oak Lawn and I was more or less being trained at that time, riding with another senior officer and an occasion arose where they had to contact him about a white waitress that he had worked--had worked for him and had been intimate with some colored musicians that he had.

Mr. Hubert.

And you met him on that occasion ?

Mr. Vaughn.

Yes, sir; actually, I was Just there. I hadn't--I knew the man.

Mr. Hubert.

How long did that interview last?

Mr. Vaughn.

Oh, I'd say just a very few minutes--I don't recall.

Mr. Hubert.

When was the second time you saw him ?

Mr. Vaughn.

The second time was, I believe it was in 1961, and either the last of December or the middle of December.

Mr. Hubert.

Tell us about that occasion.

Mr. Vaughn.

Well, I had him on a traffic violation--a minor traffic violation.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you recognize him as the man you had seen before?

Mr. Vaughn.

Not until he told me who he was and I reprimanded him and let him go--didn't even issue him a ticket.

Mr. Hubert.

How long did that interview if we can call it that, with Ruby, last?

Mr. Vaughn.

I would say at most probably 5 minutes.