Mr. Cutchshaw.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. Griffin.

Let's put this on the record. Now, as I understand the story that you heard was that a man came from the two TV cameras, from the channel 5 camera that was already stationed behind a railing?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

All right.

Mr. Griffin.

And came off and assisted two other men who had already been pushing that camera through the door, and that man reached the camera at approximately when that camera was near Lowery?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

That is what I was told, what I heard.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, if that were true, do you think as you look at---out in the area toward where Lowery and that camera would have been at that point, that you would have seen a man walk over there to that camera?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

If I had been looking there at that time, I could have; yes.

Mr. Griffin.

All right. Now, what I am getting at is, the area that was in front of those two stationery TV cameras was clear, wasn't it?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Yes; because the cameras and lights were right here. And they had lights up here shining in here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Now, the camera came this route here through these swinging doors.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you see it come through the swinging doors?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Yes; I saw it coming through the swinging doors because these doors came open and they come through, and I was standing right here. I wasn't right exactly at the corner door, but I was in the doorway at the time.
I held one of the doors open when they came through, and the camera came right on down here and was parked in this area.

Mr. Griffin.

You are indicating on the chart that it was pushed through the swinging doors where Lowery was stationed and over to the point that you have marked it as the final resting place in the garage entrance?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

That is where I saw it; yes.

Mr. Griffin.

You have also been told that this same channel 5 had some other new camera behind the railing?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Right.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, in front of that railing, was that area in front of the railing clear of people at the time that that camera came through ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I don't remember whether it was exactly clear or not. I know that right after the camera came through, that these men down here started hollering to everyone to clear back. Evidently some were standing in front of the cameras down there and that is why they had to clear them out.
So far as I remember, most of the people were standing here, and in front of the door, and on the south side of the hallway into the ramp, and on the north side of the hallway, and into the ramp there.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, this guy you say had on a dark suit?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Right.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall if he had on a hat?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I do not, because the man I saw was bent over pushing like that [indicating]. All three is what struck me strange that all three of them, not one was putting all his weight, but all three were bent over pushing like that.

Mr. Griffin.

At the time that you ran for those TV cameras after the shooting, did you know that Jack Ruby had been the person who shot Oswald?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I knew that. I helped carry the man through the jail office doors to the jail office, and while I was there standing guard on the doors, someone said who is he, and a guy said it is Jack Ruby. And I was standing in the door when a doctor came in right after we got Ruby in there and they brought Oswald, and immediately thereafter, someone was banging on the door trying to get through, and I tried to push him out, and he said he was a doctor, and that he had been called. And I run my hand down his side and he had the stethoscope in his right hand coat pocket, and I let him through.

Mr. Griffin.

So, by the time you ran to the TV cameras, you knew that Ruby was the man?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I knew that Ruby was the man. They said he was Jack Ruby.