Mr. Griffin.

You didn't actually see the car reach the top of the ramp?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

Where did you lose sight of that car?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

When it went up past this line here.

Mr. Griffin.

On November 24, the day that Oswald was shot, you prepared a letter to Chief Curry and you were also interviewed by Agent Bookhout. Do you remember those two things?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Right.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember whether you prepared your letter to Curry before or after you were interviewed by Bookhout?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

It was before.

Mr. Griffin.

All right. Now, after the shooting, did you go back into the jail office?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

You followed Ruby and Oswald back in there?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Well, I helped carry--I had hold of Ruby's left hand, up as far as the jail office door. And all of us couldn't get through at the same time, so I released, because there was another man right in front at his shoulder, so I let go so they could get in.

Mr. Griffin.

Were you in the jail office when Ruby was taken upstairs?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Well, I think I was, because I was there at the door keeping other people out--after I got in. Let me put it like this: After we got Ruby on the inside, I slammed the door, too.

Mr. Griffin.

Did there come a time when you left the jail office?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Yes; there was.

Mr. Griffin.

How long after Ruby shot Oswald would you say that was?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I imagine it was only a couple of minutes. Just a very short time.

Mr. Griffin.

Then where did you go?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I notified this TV camera officer here with two men, I went over to talk to them, because they were trying to push it up this ramp by their-selves, and I do remember seeing three men with that camera at one time, and there was only two men at the time trying to push it.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you remember what TV camera that was? What station?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Channel 5 on the camera box.

Mr. Griffin.

Have you subsequently learned that it was a Dallas channel 5?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Well, I think so, that channel 5. I believe it is a Fort Worth station. It is one of them, got two of them.

Mr. Griffin.

What channel is channel 5? What station?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I believe that is a Fort Worth station. Mr. GRIFFIN. What are the call letters on that?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Man, I don't know.

Mr. Griffin.

Is it in your statement anywhere?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I don't know. I don't think I know the call letters. Just channel 5 is the only thing I saw on the box.

Mr. Griffin.

How many men were over at the camera at that time?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

When I was standing at the door, I had it closed, and I looked out and I saw the camera here with only two men.

Mr. Griffin.

Why did you go over to the camera ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Because I remember three men being with the camera in this area here.

Mr. Griffin.

I see. Did you have reason to think one of them might be Ruby?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I didn't at the time, because I figured if there were three men pushing it out, why wouldn't there be three men trying to get it up the ramp.

Mr. Griffin.

How many did you see get it up the ramp?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

TWO.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you detain those men ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Did anybody assist?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Officer Lowery.

Mr. Griffin.

Anybody else?