also, however, want any pertinent facts that you may have that would bear upon the entire picture. You have been asked to appear here as a result of a letter which was mailed to Chief Curry in the form of a general request from Mr. J. Lee Rankin, who is the general counsel of the President's Commission. Actually, under the rules adopted by the Commission you are entitled to get a personal letter from the Commission, and 3 days before you testify here. However, the rules do provide that you can waive that particular letter, or 3-day written notice. Now, the first thing I want to ask you is if you would like us to send you a letter, or if you prefer to waive the 3-day notice?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I will waive that notice.

Mr. Griffin.

Also, the rules of the Commission provide that you are entitled to be represented by counsel at any time, and many of the people do have attorneys here. I want you to feel that we welcome your availing yourself of this opportunity if you want to, but I see that you are not here with an attorney, and I presume by that fact that you have decided that you don't want one. But if you do feel that you would like one, please feel free to indicate right now and we will certainly

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I don't feel I need one.

Mr. Griffin.

Okay, let me ask you to raise your right hand and swear you in. Do your solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I do.

Mr. Griffin.

Would you state your full name?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Wilbur Jay Cutchshaw.

Mr. Griffin.

When were you born, Mr. Cutchshaw ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

May 27, 1923.

Mr. Griffin.

Where do you presently live?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

401 Northwest 22d, Grand Prairie, Tex.

Mr. Griffin.

What is your occupation?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Police officer, Dallas, Tex.

Mr. Griffin.

How long have you been with the police department?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

A little over 9 years.

Mr. Griffin.

Are you in any particular bureau of the police department?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Criminal investigation division, juvenile bureau.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you hold any particular rank in the department?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Detective.

Mr. Griffin.

How long have you been with the juvenile bureau?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

About 2 1/2 years.

Mr. Griffin.

Where were you the time before that?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Radio patrol. Mostly working in the West Dallas area.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you ever work in the downtown Dallas area?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I think I worked downtown there for about a month.

Mr. Griffin.

Did you know Jack Ruby before the time he shot Lee Oswald ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I had seen him one time before.

Mr. Griffin.

Where was that?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

At the Carousel on Commerce.

Mr. Griffin.

How did you happen to see him?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I went up in his place one night

Mr. Griffin.

How long was that before he shot Oswald?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

That's been about 2 1/2 years ago, the first time I saw him.

Mr. Griffin.

I am going to mark for the purpose of identification a copy of an interview report prepared by FBI Agents Mabey and Hughes, purporting to report an interview they had with you on December 2, 1963. I am marking this "Dallas, Tex, Detective Cutchshaw, 3-26-64, Exhibit 5042." I have marked for identification the interview report of December 2, 1963, by Mabey and Hughes as Exhibit 5042. I have marked what purports to be a copy of a letter signed by you to Chief Curry, dated November 24, 1963, as Exhibit 5043. And I have marked as Exhibit 5044 a copy of a report by FBI Agent James W. Bookhout, relating to an interview that Bookhout had with you on November 24th. That is Exhibit 5044. Now, have you had a chance to look over these two interview reports and a copy of your letter?