Mr. Thornley.

or the Hindu cultural outlook or the Islamic cultural outlook, and he felt that, as I say, to get back to this argument, he felt that there were enough other things about communism that justified it that one could accept the theory of history on faith.

Mr. Jenner.

What other things?

Mr. Thornley.

Well, for one thing; the idea that he felt--as did Marx--that under capitalism workers are exploited, that in some way they are robbed of their full reward for their work by means of entrepreneurs' profits, and he felt that Marxism took his money but instead of taking it away from the worker spent it on the worker.
He felt that under a Soviet--under the present Soviet system, for example, that the money was spent for the benefit of the people rather than going to the individual who happened to be running the enterprise, and he thought this was a juster situation.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you raise with him the price the individual had to pay for the material accommodation accorded the worker under the Communist system; for the substance or money, of which you speak, being returned to the worker? The price paid in terms of individual liberty as against the capitalistic or democratic system?

Mr. Thornley.

You couldn't say this to him. Because he would say: "How do you know? How do you know what is going on there."

Mr. Jenner.

first; did you raise it with him?

Mr. Thornley.

I raised it with him.

Mr. Jenner.

You being a libertarian as you say?

Mr. Thornley.

Well, at that time I was--my ideas have changed since that time. At that time I was much to the left in my political thinking once again; well, I would say about in the same position that Mr. Stone who I spoke of earlier is now. I was on the "left-hand" side of the acceptable political spectrum in this country, and so, therefore, these issues, the issues I would now raise with him had I again the chance to speak to him, would be much different than the issues I raised with him at that time. I did not raise that issue particularly, I did not push it.

Mr. Jenner.

Was there much, if any, discussion at the time on the issue of individual liberty?

Mr. Thornley.

No; very little, because I wasn't too concerned about it at the time and neither was he. We were beth concerned about what was the best for the greatest number of people. I don't think that concept was clear to either one of us.

Mr. Jenner.

But, even having in mind the status of your political thinking at that moment, your political thinking did not square with his?

Mr. Thornley.

No; I was opposed to the great trust that he put in, much greater than I suspected at that time, of course, trust that he put in the Soviet Government in the world today I felt they were misguided idealists. He felt they weren't misguided.

Mr. Jenner.

Give us as best you can recall his comments and views with respect to capitalism of the variety then existing, or as he understood existed in this Nation.

Mr. Thornley.

Well, I wouldn't say that we I can't recall-us having gone into any detail about anything so relevant to anything as capitalism in this Nation at the time.

Mr. Jenner.

These discussions were broader. They were more abstract?

Mr. Thornley.

Usually, yes. Whenever we got specific we usually discussed the Marine Corps.

Mr. Jenner.

I see. You did not discuss the United States of America as such?

Mr. Thornley.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

And the Soviet Union as such, and compared the two countries?

Mr. Thornley.

Well, as I say, you couldn't do this with Oswald because whenever you tried to make any statement about the Soviet Union he would challenge it on the grounds that we were probably propagandized in this country and we had no knowledge of what was going on over there.

Mr. Jenner.

Did he purport to know what was going on over there?

Mr. Thornley.

No.