Mr. Greener.

another a little low, so that is the reason the man takes his gun and shoots it in as far as the elevation is concerned. He can zero it in to what distance he wants to shoot it at.

Mr. Liebeler.

That would have to be done, as you have indicated, even if the rifle had been boresighted?

Mr. Greener.

That's right. It would be accurate as far as elevation. The windage part is usually right on target, but the elevation has to do with caliber.
As far as your 6.5 Italian gun is concerned, there is only two types. One is the hand load, and one is the military ammunition. Because there is none of the major ammunition manufacturers that builds a sporting load for that gun, so it either has to be a hand load or old Italian or military ammunition, and the hand load has to do with what size bullet and the power you get, and it would be more important on that gun to shoot it than it would any other caliber or of an American make that you get your larger manufacturers of ammunition loading for.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you have any 6.5 ammunition in your shop?

Mr. Greener.

Not 6.5 Italian.

Mr. Liebeler.

Have you ever had?

Mr. Greener.

We have a 6.5 Swedish and 6.5 Jap, and I believe that is all of these 6.5's.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you do reloading of casings?

Mr. Greener.

No.

Mr. Liebeler.

The fellow has to do that himself?

Mr. Greener.

We sell the components and the loading equipment but we don't do any loading. The only one that I have been able to find out so far that hand loads 6.5 Italian--I don't think this is a possibility, but Ray Acker with Bell Telephone is the only one I know that does any hand loading on 6.5 Italians.

Mr. Liebeler.

He works for Bell Telephone Co.?

Mr. Greener.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

He does this as a part-time occupation?

Mr. Greener.

Hobby; yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Have you talked to him about this case at all?

Mr. Greener.

No; I don't guess I have ever called him. How I came to know that he reloads, and I don't know to what extent that he reloads, but 1 called one of my suppliers as to the availability of 6.5 Italian, and he gave me his name, so that is the reason but I can't say, but as far as I know, he is the only one that loads 6.5. There may be others that buy their own dies and hand loading, more especially since there are more guns coming out, but that would be, oh, a year and a haft ago when I was told that he hand loaded 6.5 Italians.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you need a particular kind of equipment to reload shells?

Mr. Griffin.

Very definitely.

Mr. Liebeler.

Does the equipment vary with the caliber of the shell?

Mr. Greener.

Very definitely. The presses usually will accept all the different calibers, and then you have to have your die sets.

Mr. Liebeler.

TO pour it?

Mr. Greener.

You've got to have your shell holders, and your die holder that resizes the brass and inserts the bullet into it, the bullet seating and there is only one caliber that one set of dies will load. If you load a 6.5 die, you have to have 6.5 dies. If you load .30-06, you have to have .30-06, and you can't have any part of the two on the different calibers of ammunition.

Mr. Liebeler.

Well, thank you again, and we appreciate your cooperation.

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Gertrude Hunter

Testimony of Gertrude Hunter

The testimony of Gertrude Hunter, was taken at 5:50 p.m., on July 22, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.