and Bringuier said, "I cannot understand how you have let yourself become entangled with this group."
He said, "I don't think you know what you are doing."
Oswald said something to the effect that, "I don't think you know what you are doing," and back and forth such as this. Bringuier said, "Anytime you want to get out of your organization and join mine there is a place for you," and he says, "I hope one day you will see the light."
And again Oswald says, "I hope you see the light," and that was about all there was to that.
Butler didn't say anything to him particularly. It was just pleasantries, "How do you do," and such.

Mr. Jenner.

How old a man is Butler?

Mr. Stuckey.

Butler is in his late twenties, he is 29 or 30.

Mr. Jenner.

Is he an educated man?

Mr. Stuckey.

College, as far as I know. He is advertising, public relations man before he went into the propaganda business, and that was about the extent of the exchanges prior to the broadcast.
Then I left to go back to the newsroom, which was a different room from the room where we were sitting, to get Bill Slatter, who is the official moderator of the program, and we came back and picked up our participants and went into the broadcast room.
As I recall, in opening the show Bill Slatter said that myself and he would be talking to three other people. In other words, I was not considered a panelist, but there were two station people and three panel people. This was the way it was explained, and Slatter turned the program over to me after a very brief introduction and description of Oswald and a brief capsule of his background in New Orleans to date, and then he turned the show over to me, and I gave a several-minute description of the organization, Mr. Oswald and his activities
in New Orleans up to that time, and then I pulled the Russian thing on him.
I did mention--I think I did it this way, I said:
"Mr. Oswald, in the previous interview, gave me a description of his background. He told me this and that and this and that, but he omitted some information, to the best of my knowledge," and I mentioned that that day some newspaper clippings had come to my attention about his residence in Russia, and I said, "Is this true, Mr. Oswald?"; and Oswald said, "Yes."

Mr. Jenner.

Would you mark what I hand you, Mr. Reporter, as Stuckey Exhibit No. 3.
(The item was marked Stuckey Exhibit No. 3 for identification.)

Mr. Stuckey.

You may be interested in knowing that the Information Council of the Americas, Mr. Butler's organization, has since made a record out of this debate, and just released it about 2 weeks ago, called "Self-Portrait in Red."

Mr. Jenner.

I am going to hand you, to refresh your recollection, if it needs refreshing, a 10-page document which I have marked for purposes of identification only as Stuckey Exhibit No. 3. Each of these pages bears the figure 236 in red ink at the bottom. It is also known here as, that is, around here, as Commission Document No. 87B. The pages are numbered at the top I through 10, inclusive. It purports to be a transcript of a tape recording of your broadcast of the evening about which you speak, a debate on August 21, 1963.
We have obtained from the radio station, WDSU, a duplicate of the tape itself. Would you take a look at this transcript and perhaps, if you will run through it, tell us whether it is, to your recollection, a transcript of your program that night?

Mr. Stuckey.

I would like to say this about this transcript. I think it is very unfair. These people have put in all of Oswald's hesitations, his "er's," and that sort of thing. I notice when the AP ran an account of this after the assassination they had done all of this on Oswald. They were apparently trying to make him look stupid. Everybody else was using the "er's," but they didn't put those in.

Mr. Jenner.

I will say it is a transcript--your attention is drawn to the fact that the hesitations of Oswald are included, but the hesitations of, let us say, even yourself and the other participants, are not.

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