Mr. Jenner.

1963?

Mr. Thornley.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

This occurred in August of 1963.
Mr. THORNLEY-. Then I wasn't there; no.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you hear about it?

Mr. Thornley.

No; I didn't. I didn't hear about it until after the assassination.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you ever hear any of those tapes?

Mr. Thornley.

I heard part of one of them after the assassination, once again.

Mr. Jenner.

Did that part include his effort to distinguish between Marxism and democracy in response to a question put to him by either Mr. Stuckey or one of the other participants?

Mr. Thornley.

That is exactly what he was talking about at the time. happened to be standing in the television station in New Orleans and he was saying, and I just got a snatch of it, I was passing through the room or something; and he was saying, "Well, there are many Marxist countries in the world today."

Mr. Jenner.

This was by way of his answering a question as to what was the distinction between Marxism and communism?

Mr. Thornley.

Yes; he was saying there are many non-Communist Marxist countries in the world today and he was definitely making a distinction between Marxism and communism.

Mr. Jenner.

But all he did was to cite the countries. He didn't attempt to make the distinction.

Mr. Thornley.

It was only a snatch of it.

Mr. Jenner.

That was a fair representation of his utterances during those two radio broadcasts and one television broadcast, You mentioned also that you had a feeling on his part that he was laboring under a persecution complex?

Mr. Thornley.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

That was not necessarily based alone on the incident you relate that occurred on that Saturday morning? Were there other incidents?

Mr. Thornley.

Yes; there were many comments on his part about the walls having ears, about--I think he felt the Marine Corps kept a pretty close watch on him because of his "subversive" activities and. for that reason in fact, I think he sought to keep himself convinced that he was being watched and being pushed a little harder than anyone else.
I don't think he was consciously, perhaps not. consciously, aware of the fact that he went out of his way to get into trouble. I think it was kind of necessary to him to believe that he was being picked on. It wasn't anything extreme. I wouldn't go so far as to call it, call him a paranoid, but a definite tendency there was in that direction, I think.

Mr. Jenner.

Would you put it in terms that he had the feeling that he was being unjustifiably put upon?

Mr. Thornley.

Oh, always; yes. He was, in fact, you almost got the feeling that he was--this was happening because of his defense. I mean he was always speaking of the injustices which had been perpetrated against him.

Mr. Jenner.

Of his injustices as to him personally, different from the treatment of others about him?

Mr. Thornley.

To him personally; yes. Well, and it was the fact that he had lost his clearance, and had gone out of his way to get into some degree of trouble that went on to support this. For example, we would Stand at muster in the morning, and Sergeant Spar would call the roll and he would say "Oswald" and Oswald would step out of the ranks and he would send him off to mow the lawn or something.
Oswald did get special treatment. As I say, he had brought it on himself but he made the most of it, too, as far as using it as a means of getting or attempting to get sympathy.

Mr. Jenner.

Well, what was the sergeant's name?

Mr. Thornley.

Sergeant Spar.

Mr. Jenner.

Spar. In using his name, I don't wish to, I am not suggesting