Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know whether or not she subsequently did involve herself in Oswald's release?

Mr. Martello.

No, sir; I did not know if she did become involved in his release. I don't think she did, because during the second interview with Lee Harvey Oswald I allowed him to use the telephone in the captain's office where he called someone, some male, white male, or some male. I don't know who he spoke to, but obviously his attempt to get any assistance from Mrs. Murret was unsuccessful.

Mr. Liebeler.

Mrs. Murret also told you that Oswald had at one time been in the Soviet Union, did she not?

Mr. Martello.

That is correct, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

And then you subsequently questioned Oswald concerning this matter, did you?

Mr. Martello.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

And in your memorandum you indicate that you had asked Oswald what his opinion was of the form of communism in Russia, and he replied that it stunk? Is that correct?

Mr. Martello.

That is correct, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

That did in fact occur? Is that right?

Mr. Martello.

That is correct, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did Oswald indicate to you any other attitudes that he had toward the Soviet Union, or did he particularize or go into more detail as to why he was dissatisfied with his stay in the Soviet Union?

Mr. Martello.

Other than what I have in the memorandum where he stated that the people were still poor and depressed and that the present form of communism was not what it should be, the ideals, as he stated, were not in fact the true conditions in Russia.

Mr. Liebeler.

Now your memorandum also indicates that you asked Oswald why he would not permit members of his family to learn the English language, and the memorandum indicates that Oswald said the reason why he did not so permit them was because he hated America and he did not want his family to become Americanized since he planned to go back to Russia. Is that correct?

Mr. Martello.

That is correct, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

And Oswald did tell you that, did he not?

Mr. Martello.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

We have down here a statement, on the one hand, that as far as Oswald is concerned the system in Russia, to use his word, "stunk," and, on the other hand, he said that he hated America and had indicated a desire to return to Russia. Do you remember how he presented these ideas, and did he seem to be equally convinced as to both these propositions, or did he display any emotion concerning either one of these propositions, or just what was his general attitude?

Mr. Martello.

His general attitude was, he stated that he believed in a socialistic form of government and that in choosing between America and Russia, he gave me the impression that he would choose the lesser of the two evils, in his opinion.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did he indicate which, in his opinion, was the lesser of the two evils?

Mr. Martello.

From the way he spoke, the impression I received, it appeared to me that he felt that Russia was the lesser of the two evils.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did he express this idea with great forcefulness, or just sort of a "pox on both your houses" fashion, that really it was just too ridiculous, and that sort of thing?

Mr. Martello.

With a nonchalant attitude. He was a very cool speaker. I don't know too much of his formal education. I read an account in the newspaper about it, but from the way he spoke, it was quite obvious that he had done a heck of a lot of reading in his lifetime, and his approach was academic, more or less theories but with no aggressiveness or emotional outbursts in any way, shape, or form. It was just a very calm conversation we had, and there was no emotion involved whatsoever.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did he show any hesitancy about expressing these ideas to you as a member of the police department?