Mr. Wood.

to check our target and I remembered that his was almost always in the eye. And as we came back to shoot again. I talked to him and I said, "Sir, is that a 6.5 Italian carbine?" And he said, "Yes, sir."

Mr. Liebeler.

Why did you ask him that question?

Mr. Wood.

Because I read gun books and I was pretty sure that was a 6.5 Italian carbine and I wanted to make sure.

Mr. Liebeler.

Have you told your father about this, that that was an Italian carbine?

Mr. Wood.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

How did you express it?

Mr. Wood.

I said, "Daddy, it looks like a 6.5 Italian carbine," and I asked him if it was a four-power scope, because it was funny looking, it wasn't American, and he said, "Yes, it was."

Mr. Liebeler.

Had you talked to your father about this fellow or this rifle before you talked to this guy?

Mr. Wood.

I think I said that it looked like an Italian make gun, to me.

Mr. Liebeler.

You said that to your father?

Mr. Wood.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Can you remember why you mentioned that particular gun to your father?

Mr. Wood.

Well, call it an Army rifle.

Mr. Liebeler.

How could you tell that?

Mr. Wood.

Well, you can tell it had been scratched up and it was a surplus gun. It was probably--you can tell it was probably used in the war.

Mr. Liebeler.

Was there anything else peculiar about this rifle that made you mention it to your father?

Mr. Wood.

It had a sawed-off barrel, shorter barrel than most rifles were.

Mr. Liebeler.

How long did the barrel of the rifle stick out?

Mr. Wood.

About that far out of the stock.

Mr. Liebeler.

Would you say that was about 3 or 4 inches?

Mr. Wood.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

You say that the barrel was sawed off?

Mr. Wood.

You could tell it was shorter than most military rifles, and every-time he shot, a spit of fire would come out and I-could feel the heat when he shot every time.

Mr. Liebeler.

What kind of a rifle do you have, Sterling?

Mr. Wood.

Winchester 30-30.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know about how long it is?

Mr. Wood.

No, sir; I wouldn't have any idea. It is a shorter rifle than of them, which is 30-30.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you know how long a yardstick is? Can you visualize in your mind?

Mr. Wood.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Is your rifle longer or shorter than a yardstick?

Mr. Wood.

It is about, I would say it was shorter than a yardstick, yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

What about the rifle that this fellow had, was it longer shorter?

Mr. Wood.

Longer than a yard stick, because it is--a Winchester is a small gun to start off with, and a military rifle is a pretty long rifle.

Mr. Liebeler.

This one, even though the barrel was sawed-off, you think it was still longer than a yardstick?

Mr. Wood.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Could you guess about how much longer than a yardstick it would be?

Mr. Wood.

No, sir; it wasn't too much bigger than a yardstick.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did you talk to this fellow any more than just ask him what you have already told us?

Mr. Wood.

No, sir.

Mr. Liebeler.

And he said only two words to you?

Mr. Wood.

Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Did he leave the range before you or after?

Mr. Wood.

Before I did.