Mr. Jenner.

Now, as much a difference as one-eighth of an inch on sizing as against an order for, let's say, exactly 4 inches or for one-eighth of an inch, as the case might be, would make that particular work unusable?

Mr. Graef.

Correct.

Mr. Graef.

Right. This didn't mean that every job was wrong, but little by little as the days passed and-we got into--we'll say--into the fourth and fifth month of his employment, more and more he was being relied upon to produce this exact work and there were too many times--it was his mistakes were above normal--he was making too many mistakes. Of course, we helped him as much as we could to do a better job.

Mr. Jenner.

Was it your impression along about this area that the errors Were .ones of lack of skill, or do you have a recollection now of any attributing on your part of those errors to lack of interest, lack of industry, dissatisfaction with the position- -would you give me your impression in this connection, please?

Mr. Graef.

Well, my impression of his mistakes were somehow that he Just couldn't manage to avoid them. It wasn't that he lacked industry or didn't try. Whenever he was asked to do a job over, he would do it willingly for me, with no---he would be more perturbed at himself that he had made "an error, so I think he just couldn't--he somehow couldn't manage to handle work that was that exact. It wasn't that he wasn't trying or didn't work hard to do the job, but somehow he just couldn't make it, and now, like I said, it wasn't every job that this happened, but it was too frequent to allow. There , were too many .times that these things had to be made over and they added to the final reason for dismissing him.

Mr. Jenner.

You. carry on--I want this in your own words without prompting on my part.

Mr. Graef.

Sure. Now, this was approximately the fourth month that he began to be given the responsibility for making these jobs, and it began to become evident then that he was making these mistakes. We kept, of course, trying to train him---now, by this time he was working under other people, and many times he was going through the processes of doing these jobs by himself and carrying the whole job through as I have outlined previously.

Mr. Jenner.

This work didn't, I take it, require his creating any copies?

Mr. Graef.

I beg your pardon?

Mr. Jenner.

Did you prepare copy--I'm talking about you personally?

Mr. Graef.

No; very, very seldom.

Mr. Jenner.

Do you have a department in which advertising copy is prepared?

Mr. Graef.

If you mean by that--like pasting up advertisements?

Mr. Jenner.

No; I mean preparing them.

Mr. Graef.

Actually working on layouts and ideas to be used---creative ideas and things like that?

Mr. Jenner.

Yes; the body of copy.

Mr. Graef.

No; we do for our own firm create small ads and so forth.

Mr. Jenner.

What I am getting at, he never reached the point which he had to do any creating of copy in the sense that I am tailing about, which would then lead you to have some experience with him as to his use of grammar?

Mr. Graef.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

Or his skills along those lines?

Mr. Graef.

No; now, in the course of his carrying these jobs through and back in the darkroom, I began to hear, vague rumors of friction between him and the-other employees. The nature of our business is such that we are under pressure a good deal of the time to meet deadlines.

Mr. Jenner.

Time pressures?

Mr. Graef.

Yes; in the interest of teamwork and getting a job out, we try to tend to overlook things like that.

Mr. Jenner.

Things like what?

Mr. Graef.

Flareups of temper or an ugly word or something like that that someone who may be under particular pressure at the time, and someone says the wrong thing---it might set them off a little bit, so-I began to hear rumors of some of these things happening with Lee, but it has happened with other fellows also, but little by little, I mean other fellows-who have had these flareups--