Mr. Oswald.

It is my understanding some time in the early part of 1963, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

And did Marina state that, or did someone state that in your presence?

Mr. Oswald.

This came to my knowledge, sir, after the departure of the FBI agents on this particular day.

Mr. Jenner.

Through what source?

Mr. Oswald.

I believe, sir, through, to the best of my memory--through Mr. Lee Gopadze, who acted as an interpreter.

Mr. Jenner.

Was Marina present when you were afforded that information?

Mr. Oswald.

I believe she was, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

And did she have an aversion to being interviewed by the FBI agent on this occasion?

Mr. Oswald.

Yes, sir, she did.

Mr. Jenner.

And she expressed that aversion?

Mr. Oswald.

Yes, sir, she did.

Mr. Jenner.

Was the reason given in your presence?

Mr. Oswald.

That she did not----

Mr. Jenner.

Was it--yes or no?

Mr. Oswald.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Jenner.

By whom; Mr. Gopadze, by interpretation, interpreting Marina?

Mr. Oswald.

There, again, sir, this was knowledge given to me after their departure.

Mr. Jenner.

Yes--but through what source did you obtain it?

Mr. Oswald.

Through Mr. Gopadze, in the presence of Marina Oswald.
And other Secret Service agents.

Mr. Jenner.

And what did he say as to her aversion?

Mr. Oswald.

That Marina had recognized this one FBI agent as a man who had come to the Paines' home in Irving, Texas, and perhaps at another location where they might have lived in Dallas, or the surrounding territory, and had questioned Lee on these occasions.

Mr. Jenner.

In the home?

Mr. Oswald.

In or outside of the home. I do not know whether it took place on the inside--but within the immediate grounds of the home, at least.

Mr. Dulles.

And was this early in 1963? Prior, anyway, to November 1963, was it not?

Mr. Oswald.

Yes, sir, that is correct. And that this particular one agent--not the Mr. Brown I have referred to, but the other gentleman that I do not recall his name--she had an aversion to speaking to him because she was of the opinion that he had harassed Lee in his interviews, and my observation of this at this time, at this particular interview, was attempting to start--I would say this was certainly so. His manner was very harsh sir.

Mr. Jenner.

Harsh towards Marina?

Mr. Oswald.

Yes, Mr, it most certainly was. And by the tone of conversation by Marina to Mr. Gopadze, who was interpreting----

Mr. Jenner.

In your presence?

Mr. Oswald.

In my presence. And the tone of the reply between this gentle man and Mr. Gopadze, and back to Marina, it was quite evident there was a harshness there, and that Marina did not want to speak to the FBI at that time. And she was refusing to. And they were insisting, sir. And they implied in so many words, as I sat there--if I might state--with Secret Service Agent Gary Seals, of Mobile, Ala.--we were opening the first batch of mail that had come to Marina and Lee's attention, and we were perhaps just four or five feet away from where they were attempting this interview, and it came to my ears that they were implying that if she did not cooperate with the FBI agent there, that this would perhaps--I say, again, I am implying--in so
many words, that they would perhaps deport her from the United States and back to Russia.
I arose and called Mr. Mike Howard of the United States Secret Service into the back bathroom, and stated this to him. And I also stated that I realized there was some friction here between the United States Secret Service and the FBI to the extent that I was of the opinion that they did not want the FBI at that time to be aware of the tape recording that had been made of